Josie ([info]king_josie) wrote,
@ 2008-10-29 11:36:00
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Current mood: thoughtful
Entry tags:depression, psych, uni

Psychiatric services attitudes to mental health
There's a distinct difference between the British and American psychiatric professionals. On LJ you can clearly see who's British and who's American when talking about mental health.

In the US mental health problems are labelled as illnesses,much like a physical illness. American psych patients acquire copious numbers of psychiatric diagnostic labels, and in general Americans seem happier to diagnose eachother, in particular when it comes to bipolar disorder and ADHD/ADD, which are much less commonly diagnosed here. Americans are prescribed more psychiatric meds, and a distinct difference is they haven't phased out benzodiazepines yet (which have been nearly eradicated here due to their addictive nature and tendency to worsen some anxiety symptoms). They're also admitted to psychiatric wards more than here, like for example in the case of feeling suicidal or self-harming severely.
In general there's much less stigma concerning mental health issues in the USA. The advantages of their system is it's easier to get help if you do have a problem, and it's easier to deal with your problem because it's taken more seriously. The disadvantages are that people can become hooked on medications, and the labelling can make people feel hopeless that they can get better, especially if they have multiple labels.

Here in the UK professionals will avoid diagnosing you at all costs, to the extent that they'll continuously make you question if you've really got a problem at all "what do you mean when you refer to 'the depression' Josie??". You rarely hear a label from a psychiatric professional. It's never referred to as an illness, the phrase "mental illness" is pounced upon and questioned/eradicated; they don't want you to think you're ill, in fact they'd prefer you didn't think you had anything wrong with you. Medication is either very easy or very hard to get depending upon the professional you're dealing with. And admittance to psychiatric wards is rare, even in life-threatening circumstances. The attitude is generally that your problems are under your control, and that's it's not like an outside force.
In the UK i think the psychiatric services are very much affected by how underfunded the NHS is - they need to keep costs down by having as few sick people as possible, even if that means trying to persuade ill people that they're not as ill as they really are. The advantages of our system is we don't get bogged down by labels, less likely to be wrongly diagnosed and we're less likely to get hooked on medications. The disadvantages of our system is we find it hard to take our problems seriously because they're not treated like "illnesses", and that adds a huge element of blame and guilt.

Thoughts???
I'm curious where the Australian psychiatric care falls.

I've written all this because i'm feeling quite miffed with my own attitudes towards my depression, which i realise have been shaped by my contact with mental health professionals. Because i'm forced to continuously persuade people that i do have a problem with my mood i find it hard to take seriously myself, so i feel like it's all my fault. Right now i'm really angry with myself for not being at uni working and instead being "lazy" in bed. Logically i know that i wouldn't get much/any work done, and i really need a break because my limits are much smaller than 'normal' peoples and i'll cause myself to become suicidal if i do try.
There must be a balance. I need to do enough work to not feel like a failure, but not put myself under so much stress that i become seriously depressed. 




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[info]yourrtheonlyone
2008-10-29 12:36 pm UTC (link)
I think the concept of waiting it out, and figuring out an alternative way to "get help" is the best thing to do. My boyfriend has dealed with depression, Manic deprsesive,social anxiety, anxiety, ADHD, and other forms of mental incompetence. He has been medicated for over 10 years. Abotu 2 years ago, he made the decision to get off of meds all together, and the first year was insane, tons of mood swings, suisidal thoughts, but then he ordered this mediation tape for free online and he started to "tap" into what made him tick,and depressed. I feel like I don't know him anymore, when you meet him he's a completly normal guy.

The use of medications in my opinion is absolutly obsurd. Yes, there are several people out there who Need medications, but if there is one thing that i was proved wrong, was that if you have willpower, the act of changing your way of thinking is possible.

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[info]springdaisyk
2008-10-29 12:40 pm UTC (link)
I think the system here sucks and commend you for trying to write about it because it just tends to make me feel confused and angry. There are so many different things wrong. I do agree however that people tend to be more likely to be over-medicated in the US and I don't think that's a particularly good thing. Also they do appear far too ready to put people in hospital instead of trying to help them cope with their own life in their own setting.

I also agree that a lot of the problem comes from lack of funding for the NHS and I think a lot of it is rooted in government. They are currently trying to reduce the stigma associated with mental ill health, so that it becomes more 'ok' to admit you have a problem, but the services are not there to help. And like you say, instead of validating that you have an illness and need help they tend to invalidate you by saying you don't need x,y,z treatment and are reluctant to diagnose (even when they do they often don't actually tell you directly what the diagnosis is).

Also agree with them not hospitalising to the point they put people's lives in danger. The number of times I've been told just to phone the emergency team if I'm feeling suicidal, I phone and am told it's a really bad idea to OD and to go to sleep. Or I've been in hospital after overdosing and released the next day/that night (I know you've had this happen too).

The other thing that's getting to me at the moment is the governments proposal to take benefits away and get people back to work. This is absolutely fine except where mental health is concerned employers are still prejudiced and it can be very hard to get jobs if you admit you have a problem (back to the stigma which the government are trying to eradicate).

I could go on and on.... but I won't!

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[info]the_10thdoctor
2008-10-29 12:56 pm UTC (link)

In general there's much less stigma concerning mental health issues in the USA. The advantages of their system is it's easier to get help if you do have a problem, and it's easier to deal with your problem because it's taken more seriously.


HAHAHAHAno.

They don't take it seriously. They still misunderstand and mistreat the mentally ill here. The difference is you see more drug ads saying "Aw, depression's real. It's okay bb. Go to your doctor and ask for our magic pills.'

The drug companies want everyone to think they've got mental health issues so they can sell more drugs. But if you admit to having a genuine need for medication you're met with all kinds of negative reactions, proving that people really don't understand these illnesses - there's a belief that the drugs 'cure' the illness, that it's all gone and then you can stop the pills, like they're antibiotics or something. The idea of having to live with the disease, even if it's controlled, the idea that it's still in you makes people leery. They think 'ooh, crazy.'

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[info]king_josie
2008-10-29 01:13 pm UTC (link)
I said "less stigma" not "no stigma"!!!! :P
But srsly, you do have less stigma than we do, even if it's hard to believe.

And i think we're fortunate here in that we don't have drug adverts. Our healthcare is different again in that we get what we're given ("beggars can't be choosers", and you have more choice.

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[info]end_lessly
2008-10-29 05:24 pm UTC (link)
Not to mention the "if it can't be cured with pills, it's not a real illness" mentality that goes with all that.

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[info]springdaisyk
2008-10-29 10:09 pm UTC (link)
Oh that sucks. I've come across that attitude here too (UK). "If the pills don't help you can't have had depression in the first place..." Talk about invalidation.

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[info]bigger_stronger
2008-10-29 12:58 pm UTC (link)
I think you've made all the points that I would say. I remember being told that depression wasn't a mental illness but a mental health issue by my psychiatrist. I'm glad that they don't put you in hospital for every little thing - "oh you cut yourself? go into hospital so we can make lots of money" and we're not overloaded with medications but for the people who do need lots of medications and a big combination of drugs it's hard for them to be able to. But on the other hand, lots of people who go to their GP and say they feel depressed leave with a prescription for fluoxetine, which annoys me & that's just because there aren't enough psychologists/psychiatrists to accurately diagnose people.

The government get it wrong a lot, they want more people to have access to a therapist, and therapy to be the first option before medication for depression/anxiety but they're not providing enough funding to train clinical psychologists. & the clinical psychologists alraedy out there are being overstretched.

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[info]bigger_stronger
2008-10-29 05:24 pm UTC (link)
Also, all the Australians I have on here live in Sydney (bar three) and have all been admitted to Northside repeatedly and they all see a psychiatrist called Dr. Tan. Seriously. And they're all on seroquel for sleep, this to help them with that, something for this, and they've all tried a mood stabiliser. But Northside is private so I don't know what their state healthcare is like.

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[info]spork_zilla
2008-10-29 01:27 pm UTC (link)
"The advantages of their system is it's easier to get help if you do have a problem..."

IF you have health insurance. If you don't, they'll lock you up for a few days and charge you over $100k for their "services" even when they've done nothing to help. Happened to Dave, and now we're stuck with debt we'll never get to pay off and although he's better than he was (no thanks to them) it was of his own accord, not because of being taken seriously or getting help.

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[info]king_josie
2008-10-29 01:43 pm UTC (link)
very true.
that's another advantage of ours.

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(Anonymous)
2008-10-29 01:43 pm UTC (link)
I think in the UK there is more use of psychological interventions before resorting to medication. Which is better but the issues of waiting lists needs to be addressed. I think the American system can be rather draconian and committing people to institutions is often unhelpful, most problems dealt with CMHTs here are related to numerous factors and the social factors often play a significant part and these need to be addressed in the community rather than from a locked ward. However, I do not suggest actively suicidal people are left without constant support and supervision which does not happen in the community, here an inpatient treatment is helpful but, sadly, rarely offered.

A reliance on labels is hard especially as many psychiatrists then refuse to work with personality disorders as these require therapy and behaviour modification rather than purely medicinal treatments. A label belies individuality and immediately stereotypes a patient which can sometimes blind care givers. Labels aren't commonly TOLD to patients in the UK but they are passed around doctors/etc as they do have uses, such as knowing which symptoms to expect and how they have been treated in the past by medicine.

For issues such as eating disorders I understand a need to hospitalise those acute medical danger but I think can often worsen the problem as people obsessed by their disorder is put into an environment where everyone else is similarly obsessed and it fuels it. It makes it often easier to return to the haven of being inpatient during subsequent relapses. That is more my personal experience than definite opinion however.

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[info]onelastgo
2008-10-29 03:03 pm UTC (link)
haha i was FALSLY diagnosed with adhd when i was 7. bastards tried to drug me up but my mother refused. thankfully.

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(Anonymous)
2008-10-29 03:39 pm UTC (link)
Unfortunately, in America, it is more of an emphasis on drug companies/agencies making money rather than helping people.
47 million Americans are uninsured, and employers will go to great lenghts to ensure that they stay that way (for example, by limiting your work hours to 35 hours/week rather than 40).
Often this means when I have bronchitis, an ear infection, an electrolyte imbalance, whatever--- I cannot see a doctor until it is so serious that I have to go to the ER. $100.00, just for them to say hello to you, and it all goes to the credit card (because any cash money is taken up by rent, food, and gas) , so another agency can make money off of misfortune. Have a few scars from self-injury when you vist the ER?---Better watch out, because they then will put me on a 72 hour hold and commence to charge about $1,000 per day for 'help' in the form forced medications that do nothing but add to the problem.

Less stigma, yes. But so much greed and fear.

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[info]king_josie
2008-10-29 04:03 pm UTC (link)
oh gosh, if we get onto the healthcare system as a whole it gets so much more complex!

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[info]edie_alyss
2008-10-29 06:30 pm UTC (link)
Both my parents are mental health professionals in the NHS and my dad has fed me with the idea that Depression and self-destructive behaviours like self-harm and Eating Disorders are not illnesses but JUST under-developed coping mechanisms and that it's all just about taking life too seriously and flailing for attention. And this is the guy who writes the reports!!!
But I agree, the NHS budget is DEFINATELY a huge reason for the poor services. That and the elusive nature of the problems themselves.
xxx

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[info]hanacandi
2008-10-29 11:49 pm UTC (link)
One of the things I really dislike about the internet is the way that people get triggered by these differences. I know a lot of people in the UK that have felt like they haven't had a "real" ED because they've never been hospitalised, whereas they're working on the basis of how ill a person has to typically be before they receive help in the US. Or that they don't really have depression, because they're doctor was slow to diagnose, whereas friends in the states had a firm diagnosis from the beginning.

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[info]king_josie
2008-10-30 12:05 am UTC (link)
oh definitely.

i used to feel like i needed to self-harm more to get my point across because of this.

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[info]esophag0r
2008-10-30 12:04 am UTC (link)
I hate when psychiatrist's avoid my questions of, "Am I depressed/schizophrenic/eating disordered/etc?" I want to know what 'labels' they feel I warrant. It helps me to make sense of things in my head. I can understand why for some people labels would be a bad thing, where they could feel overwhelmed by it. For me, being given labels helps. I tell my psychiatrists to give me those labels, but they don't always oblige. In Malta, the system pretty much differs with each psychiatrist. Some are eager to give medication, some are waaaaay over eager; others try their hardest not to give out medication. Some refer you to hospitalization only as a last resort, others will do it quickly. Benzodiazepenes are very much in use here, as is electroshock therapy. I don't agree with the latter being in common use, but I suppose I'm biased because of my bad experiences with it. But, how can electric shocks to the head not be bad for you? :|

I dunno which system would be better really - US or UK. I think ultimately it depends on the patient, and if they demand to know their 'labels', they should be given them.

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Australian mental health care
(Anonymous)
2008-11-01 11:58 pm UTC (link)
Liz Main has written a piece on Australian mental health care:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/ouch/features/different_down_under_the_australian_mental_health_system.shtml

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[info]granola37
2008-11-02 04:15 pm UTC (link)
I think the UK system is less motivated by greed than the US system.

Like the anonymous post from 10/29 mentioned, it's all about how much money they can pump out of you. It's kind of like a business - when you walk into an electronics store they try very hard to make you buy a new TV. Is it because you need a new TV and they are looking out for your best interest? No. It's because they want your money. I think a car dealership would have been a better example, but I don't know if car dealerships in the UK are as ridiculous as they are in the US...

People can get diagnosed so easily in the US because, like I said, its all about money. For example, Person X goes to the doctor and claims to have Condition B. The doctor disagrees, makes no diagnosis, but sends Person X to the pharmacy with a prescription that treats condition B. Even with insurance, without a diagnosis (read: justification) Person X's insurance will not pay for the prescription, so now it cost $200. Person X doesn't buy the prescriptions so now the drug company doesn't get their $200 profit and the doctor doesn't get his $50 kickback that the drug company is obviously paying him to push their medication.
The problem or illness that you have isn't taken more seriously - the money is. It cost me $300 to see my psychiatrist for 15 minutes - of course they're going to diagnose me with something. They need justification to get the money from my insurance. I'm not trying to be negative - of course they are out to help people, that's their job. But this is the US after all.

Also, if you go to the Mental Hospital claiming to be suicidal they have to let you in because they don't want to be sued if anything happens to you. 'Tis the American way.

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[info]king_josie
2008-11-02 10:25 pm UTC (link)
Really good points.

I think British psych care is the polar opposite for the same reasons - if you're ill they have to treat you, costing the NHS money...and there is no money. So if people can be persuaded they're fine and given minimal care then the health service does "well".

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